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Axé All Day
Andrew Thomas Carroll is a modern minstrel, storyteller, facilitator, and speaker. He illuminates opportunities for integration and growth through stories, experiences, and technologies, including psychedelics.
On this podcast, Andrew shares his own story of healing and growth through the use of psychedelics and interviews other people who have also found healing and transformation through a diverse collection of powerful tools. Topics include somatic therapy, movement as medicine, the power of the voice, finding your unique purpose, and the use of psychedelics for healing and personal growth.
If you're looking for inspiration and guidance on your own journey of healing, growth, and thriving, then this podcast is for you.
Axé All Day
S1E18: Brian Burnette on Healing, Music, and Psychedelics
In this compelling podcast episode, host Andrew Carroll invites guest Brian Burnette to share his remarkable life experiences. Journey alongside them as they delve into the twists and turns of Brian's path, from working in kitchens to carpentry, and from navigating toxic relationships to co-parenting challenges.
Discover how psychedelics have played a pivotal role in Brian's personal transformation. Dive deep into their conversation as they explore the power of facing fears and embracing discomfort, all while reflecting on the healing and growth that emerge from these profound encounters.
Andrew's structured approach to psychedelics, including eye covers, body scanning, and integration work, provides a fascinating contrast to Brian's more recreational experiences. Together, they offer a unique perspective on the world of psychedelics and personal development.
Join this engaging dialogue that offers a window into the complexities of the human journey, and gain insights into the invaluable lessons learned along the way.
I worked in kitchens on and off for 10 years.
Brian Burnette:Okay, before.
Andrew Carroll:I switched over to carpentry.
Brian Burnette:Oh yeah, because now you work wood. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, jesus Christ, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, so, yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So you did math two more times and working in a kitchen, and that was the end of it.
Andrew Carroll:Yeah, and then I met a girl that I decided I wanted her to be it. I was having a lot of promiscuous sex prior to that also tons, tons and tons and tons of it risky sexual behavior goes hand-in-hand with drug abuse lifestyle. Yeah, but I mean, this was, this was after the month.
Brian Burnette:Yeah okay, well, before and after that's still often the case and is not discussed openly in our society. Men are told to go fuck anything that moves and then we're shamed for it, and women are told to never have sex and then are shamed for having sex. So people aren't addressing the absolute, undeniable power of consensual adult Eros, energy and sex and fucking and love making, and many people approach that in many different ways. But you're you're giving away literally half of the ingredient of life to random people and it's such an exchange of energy that I have definitely moved into a place in my life. I'm very protective of my vitality.
Andrew Carroll:Absolutely lucky for me, I only caught chlamydia once only one time.
Brian Burnette:That was it. Thank God, yeah, yeah, the real.
Andrew Carroll:I was like, I think I was 19.
Brian Burnette:And that's another thing too. Like it's so people don't talk about it and they're embarrassed. It's like, bro, the statistics say that if you don't have one, you're like in the out group, which is so messed up. It's so messed up, right, yeah, like, yeah, I was a. I was a Definitely impermissuous dude for a hot minute. I wasn't like you know I've been. I was an unfaithful partner. I was a cheating husband. I did, I did all the illicit. It's awful stuff, man, and it was always because, much like you were talking about earlier, you felt helpless, right, and so you were angry. I felt like I had no intrinsic value. I wasn't, I didn't love myself, and so anytime I could manipulate someone to have sex with me, I was like, oh, I'm valuable and they see me. And it's like, well, that's fucking stupid dude, that's such a bad feedback loop.
Andrew Carroll:Oh my god, I love it yeah.
Brian Burnette:So, but that's cool man. So you met.
Andrew Carroll:Yeah, I have two Teenagers with this woman and it ended up being a very toxic, traumatic situation. Yeah, to the point that I don't even speak to their mom at all.
Brian Burnette:Haven't in years and probably won't yeah, just coming in with these heaters dude, like the stuff that men aren't allowed to talk about. That hardly ever either. That stuff happens to us as well. We end up in relationships that are unhealthy and toxic.
Brian Burnette:There's just people waiting in the wings to point a finger at a dude when a relationship's over and they're like it's fucking your fault, like I actually showed up powerfully and presently, with full love it wasn't me, you know and, in the same time, like we're responsible for everything that happens to us, right?
Andrew Carroll:Yes, we are. We, absolutely.
Brian Burnette:We have a hand in the things that happen to us just as much as Because we have full agency and we see the red flags and we choose to walk by because those titties are nice or that pussy feels too good or whatever. Right, like truly sure and that might be a little bit crude, but this is the really like, real, real things that at least go through my mind.
Brian Burnette:I don't know if that was the same case for you, but I've stayed in relationships way too long because I thought the sex was that was like the end of the world fucking Best sex I've ever gonna have you know like I can take that emotional and physical abuse if I get that Ass over time.
Andrew Carroll:I stayed in the relationship for the sake of my kids.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, and.
Andrew Carroll:You know, and then it came to a point where that just wasn't even an option anymore staying together for the kids is one of the worst things that we can do. Yeah, we we we really showed them what dysfunction looks like on a regular basis. Yeah, and we just really drove that home.
Andrew Carroll:Yeah, no, I love how you took that serious tactic Like yeah, we did our best to show them what not to do, yeah, yeah Well yeah, indeed, but that separation that I insisted upon for my own mental health reasons or whatever, has opened up so much for me to cut that out of my life and still be able to have awesome, healthy relationship with my kids.
Brian Burnette:Yeah.
Andrew Carroll:With her not involved.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, and that's that's. That's really the best thing that you can do. It's really the best thing that you can do.
Andrew Carroll:Yeah, it's, it's been great. Yeah, yeah, good my kids are awesome and they think I'm cool too.
Brian Burnette:So yeah, doing cool dad vibes. That's what's up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Andrew Carroll:Yeah, we separated ways and I ended up meeting my current wife. Oh, I was not looking for. We went to high school together. I went to a 10 year high school reunion party and there she was and we connected and you know, the rest is history, man, yeah. You know we've been married for eight years going strong and I, just God, I love that woman. Yeah, you do.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, you tell me all the time. Yeah, it's so beautiful, yeah, she's super cool, super cool. How has music healed you throughout this process and throughout this expansion? Because you started to talk about busking in Pike Place.
Andrew Carroll:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I could back up to that.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, let's go, run around, run it back.
Andrew Carroll:There's not a whole lot to say about it, except for it was a really good time. I made money in the summer Pretty good money. I'm doing it. I was still floating couch, surfing, hopping around, you know, doing the promiscuity, and all of that running around with my guitar and singing. It got me everything that I wanted, which was food, shelter and sex. Those were the things I wanted. But it was after a couple of years when I decided that I was ready to maybe like have my own place and, you know, get a job and settle down. And it was cool while it lasted, but I was ready to move on.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, understandably. So Right, yeah, for some stability.
Andrew Carroll:Absolutely, so that not every day was completely random. Yeah Chaos, yeah Chaos.
Brian Burnette:Yep, okay, that's beautiful man. Did you stay in Seattle that whole time that you're busking and doing that stuff, or did you travel the country, or what did?
Andrew Carroll:that look like? Yeah, Actually I did. I did do a trip down California coast with my buddy Russ down California way. Yeah, yep, we did, and it was cool. We ended up going down and down all the way, I think about, to Oceanside or so before we ended up taking off and heading back up North, we met some folks in Berkeley. There in the Bay area he decided he wanted that's where he wanted to be.
Brian Burnette:Okay.
Andrew Carroll:So he stayed yeah.
Brian Burnette:I love that and he stayed and.
Andrew Carroll:I went back. That was quite the experience too. Just different people that you meet and the way the journey goes and sleeping in the back of a truck. It was really something else.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, a lot of people don't have the courage to do that, man.
Andrew Carroll:Well, sometimes it's courage and sometimes it's just stupid. Maybe I was too stupid to be scared? I don't know, but young man. Yeah, yeah, I do love a good adventure. So you know, and I'm still that way. So I don't know, I love me a good adventure. Some people might say, I don't know and I'm like, oh, let's go.
Brian Burnette:Yo, if I'm scared, we should probably do it. It's kind of like the way I look at things and that's what I taught my kids too Like cliff jumping is my favorite example, because I would always tell them, like on the other side of that fear, you know you're gonna have a good time. Like you're scared when you look over the edge, you're scared when you back up, you're scared when you start running, but as soon as you jump off of that edge, that fear, it's like you're breaking through this fear barrier, yeah, and then you're having a blast. And they have carried that with them, all of them.
Brian Burnette:Like yeah, I'm so. I'm so proud of them, you know, I'm so proud of all of them. Man, if you let fear control you, you're not going to have a life to live.
Andrew Carroll:Fear based decision making is definitely something that you want to avoid, unless it is something you know for your immediate safety. Yeah, you know, there's, there's, you know there's, there's that, but you know, I mean, you know, emotional fear, not survival.
Brian Burnette:There's a huge difference between I'm afraid of public speaking versus I don't want to get shot, right, I'm pretty sure you're not going to die if you have to talk in front of people. You might want to, but and that's the kind of yeah, it's fair to clear that up that's kind of fear that we're talking about here is is that kind of stuff. So I have a question for you Are you ready? Yeah this is a David Letterman level question.
Andrew Carroll:Oh, boy, yeah, okay, yeah All right, are you ready? Let's go.
Brian Burnette:Okay, of the two modalities, of the two healing modalities, music and psychedelics, which has had a bigger impact on you becoming who you are today, in your philosophy and your ability to be fully integrated?
Andrew Carroll:I would say that psychedelics would be something that is that has healed so much. It's beyond the music. It's it's before the music. It has helped me to to accept and love myself in ways that I was always afraid to. I would recommend it to anyone. You know, I was just telling a friend I've had really good, awesome, amazing experiences where I feel truly connected with the universe and one and just the love and the and the opening, openness and ability to really engage with others, you know, and just fantastic. And then the flip side of that, where I was so anxiety-ridden I wanted to go hide, I didn't know where to, you know, don't know what to do, I'm uncertain of everything, you know, I'm freaking out, I'm not breathing well, my stomach hurts, and just just all negativity. I was saying that, you know, oddly so, it was those horrible experiences that actually helped me more than the good ones. Yes, because it had a way of putting me kind of into a fight or flight mode, but it wasn't something I could run away from.
Brian Burnette:Oh, you're not getting away, buckle up yeah yeah, buckle up.
Andrew Carroll:So I basically had to reason with myself that I was okay or that I was good enough. I had to make peace with what was going on so that I could actually feel okay, beyond those psychedelic moments when I'm not having on a psychedelic trip or anything, those mental exercises that I had to go through to be okay, translated into today, into now where I'm able to deal with anxiety and depression and dissociative behaviors and the runaway complex or the I don't have anything to say and I'm just gonna be over here, so much better it does still happen.
Brian Burnette:Oh yeah.
Andrew Carroll:It does still happen. You know the fight's not over, but I feel like they've really allowed me to be okay with who I am and love myself and live the life that I want. I've never been so busy doing the things that I love on top of doing all the shit I have to do, and it's great.
Brian Burnette:I love all of that and similar experience. A couple of things I wanna touch on. You said specifically that the fight's not over, and for my experience with psychedelics is resistance is futile and the more you try to resist, that cause it's gonna come up. Man, even in my practice where I do the work and I have a lot of tools in my toolbox traditional methods of training and therapy and all this other stuff, in addition to, like, my dabbling in magic and all these other things, that's my whole role in life, right Is I'm meant to go and sample everything and then come back and tell everybody else about it.
Brian Burnette:That's kind of yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's the artist's job, right, that's the creative's job in so many ways. Do you do that with your music, with your guitar, with your voice? I do that with my poetry, with the podcast, with whatever I can get my hands on. One of the biggest lessons I learned is to notice and allow and to surrender, and surrender has a bad rap. Surrender was like oh, then you're quitting, and like failing.
Brian Burnette:And I was like no dude, like I'm floating in the current of the universe, like I'm in the ocean, I'm relaxed and I'm present and I'm open to like. I know that the universe can inspire us. For me, and everything that it does might be some ugly ass crying and a ton of heartbreak, but it's still for my benefit, because that wasn't serving me and I couldn't take myself out of it, so it was taken from me. I just wanted to point that out to really remember, like, no matter what you're going through, whether you do psychedelics or not, but to stand and witness for your experience, no matter what it is, and don't resist it but embrace it, lean into it. When that fear comes up and I'm in a big mushroom experience I'm gonna lean into that. And what they taught me the big, big takeaway and much like what you're saying is to sit with it, to sit with what is going on. You don't need to run, you don't need to hide, you don't need to fight it, you don't have to be in fight or flight. Is this uncomfortable?
Andrew Carroll:Yes.
Brian Burnette:Am I fine? Yes, I can be many things at once and it is learning and actively understanding that I can be in the most like literally. There are moments in a big, big journey where I'm like I want to die. Oh, I am dying.
Andrew Carroll:Yeah, I've actually been there, yeah, and then you're like, oh, I did die.
Brian Burnette:Oh, and I am dead. Okay, yeah, so here we are and this is, this is death, and I'm also fine.
Andrew Carroll:Okay, yeah.
Brian Burnette:And man, you're absolutely spot on is like what people call them bad trips, and even there's, the people are still trying to figure out ways around that. It's like no man. That's the medicine, it's so easy to go into a journey and have a great time and dance with the butterflies and the slide the rainbows.
Andrew Carroll:And I would recommend that to anyone. Oh, yeah, for sure, yeah, I would.
Brian Burnette:But you better do that shadow worker else. Well, yeah.
Andrew Carroll:And regardless, you know you're going to get your ass kicked when you need it.
Brian Burnette:Oh yeah, and that's so. That's really cool, man, that you said that and I don't want to. We don't need to put your specific recipe on blast here, but I will share that. There's a lot of cool stuff coming out of maps right now and MDMA therapy is on the cusp of becoming a fully legal, facilitated psychedelic, even though it's an empathogen, fully available treatment for PTSD and therapy and stuff. And that saved my life. And the reason that MDMA was so effective is because it teaches you to sit with all that guilt and the shame and the self doubt and all the disgust, all the things that drive addictive, self-destructive, anti-social behaviors. Mdma teaches you to be with that stuff inside of yourself, to love it, to integrate it and to be able to still function. And it clears dissociation and you said this earlier. I was so proud of you Because I love you so much. You're like dissociative behaviors, oh yes.
Brian Burnette:Huge deal.
Andrew Carroll:Which I own.
Brian Burnette:Oh, you have to you have to, and looking at you guys out there who have five drinks every day of the week after work, like I love you and I hope that maybe you could dial that back a little bit. Yeah, right, right, because it's just listening to Andrew Huberman's podcast about alcohol and the impact that it has on the body. Just ridiculous. I'm so glad I haven't had no alcohol has passed my lips since the 12th of February. I'm so stoked on that.
Andrew Carroll:I must admit I had a bit of a drinker.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, you know what, man? There's no judgment here. There's no judgment here. And I was going to follow that up and say, like, if you're being productive and you're doing your thing and you're, you take care of your family and yourself and everything else, man, and do without, do what you will, do what you will.
Andrew Carroll:I don't want. Yeah, exactly, it's my body. What yeah?
Brian Burnette:Anyway. So MDMA clears dissociation from the body. So when what you're doing is one you're getting used to like, where are all these feelings stored? What does it like to be? In this place I can access my joy and happiness and wellbeing, no matter what I'm going through, because that is intrinsic, it is internal to me, it is mine and I can choose that whenever I want. So when you do start using fungus, after about nine to, depending on the person, some people have great results with three MDMA sessions. My personal experience was nine or more MDMA sessions and then you move into using fungus and those sessions can be super intense. But what the MDMA has taught you is how to be with all that stuff that comes up. Then, when you get into the plant medicine and those psychedelics, they're able to actually give you even deeper teachings, because you did all that clearing work with the MDMA first.
Andrew Carroll:So that there might be some things that I'm realizing as you speak now that make a lot of sense.
Brian Burnette:Yeah, yeah, do you want to share them?
Andrew Carroll:Well, well, the MDMA in general I have. I have work sessions MDMA somewhat frequently.
Brian Burnette:You know I don't want to blur the lines, right, yeah, so what I'm talking about like truly what my experience I had never done MDMA before in my whole life, and then I met a therapist who was doing this stuff underground.
Andrew Carroll:I didn't have that.
Brian Burnette:And no, yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's why I want to be clear so people who are listening know, and I'm not saying there's a right or wrong way. Yeah, I'm just sharing my experience, right? So my sessions were exactly in the maps protocol. I had an eye cover on, I was not listening to music, I was witnessed the entire time.
Brian Burnette:I was doing body scanning, meditation, I was laying down and going through my body and sitting with all these things and doing the breath work and all that stuff. And then I was doing integration work three days after that session with a different counselor. And then I was also doing cannabis sessions, maybe once a month, with that same process. I cover laying on the table the whole deal. And so I have that experience with all that stuff before I ever did MDMA at a rave or anything like that. Because once I got through right right, and that to me is amazing because if I had I ever been introduced to that substance before, I don't know that this therapy would have saved my life and that's why I'm such an advocate and a proponent. This is the most open I've spoken about this.
Andrew Carroll:This is amazing stuff, I mean, and how lucky one could be to be introduced with professional therapists. Yeah, so that is incredible. Yeah, it was it was.
Brian Burnette:It did not come cheap.
Brian Burnette:It cost me at the time I was really, I was in a good place and I had saved up some money, but it was $1,200 a day for a session and it's you're doing the whole day Like you might be in the MDMA space for anywhere from, depending on what comes up.
Brian Burnette:Man, there were times when you'd be like doing such deep, emotional, energetic work that you would burn off the entire dose in like three hours and you're not even dancing, you're doing nothing, you're laying there, breathing and talking about what's going on. And then there were days where you know it would last five, six, seven hours and you come out of the MDMA space and then you get, you know, a little bit of time to like come back into the, come back into the world and like all those kinds of things. But it was a, it was beautiful, it's absolutely beautiful, and I'm so glad that it's going to be legal because it and I had done, I'd done traditional therapy, talk based stuff like exposure, all these other different things, and it just taught me how to manipulate people in a more effective way.
Andrew Carroll:Oh, okay, yeah, I can see that I was that guy. Yeah, I was that guy, yeah.
Brian Burnette:Yeah.
Andrew Carroll:Yeah.
Brian Burnette:So, um, yeah, so please, please, share your experience, because I know even and I'm listening to a book right now by, I believe her name is Rachel Neuen. It's called I feel love and it is the entire. Like it's the history of MDMA and how it has come to where it is today, with maps, and like the whole story of the people behind maps and the people who initially synthesized it, and like it's such an amazing, amazing book. I feel love, rachel Neuen Fantastic, highly recommend, wow.
Andrew Carroll:Okay, yeah, I take this seriously.
Brian Burnette:I love this stuff so much. Oh yeah, I love it yeah.
Andrew Carroll:Wow. Well, my experiences have been more recreational, based honestly, you know when it when it comes to it. I found that the first time I tried it, I just absolutely loved it.
Brian Burnette:It was fantastic.
Andrew Carroll:I would do that sometimes in conjunction with with the fungus Right.
Brian Burnette:Oh nice, hippie flip, yeah, yeah, you know yeah.
Andrew Carroll:And it's very enjoyable, you know. Oh, my gosh yeah.
Brian Burnette:Absolutely. Hold on one second, Brian, At that hippie flip. We're just going to stop for a minute and take a break. We'll be right back.
